Referrals Dried Up. She Niched Down. Here's What Happened: Taylor's Story (Episode 64)
If you’ve been feeling the shifts in the therapy industry—slower referrals, more competition, and uncertainty about what’s actually working anymore—this episode will meet you right where you are.
In this conversation, Anna sits down with Taylor Williams, a private practice therapist who experienced both sides of the post-pandemic landscape: building a full caseload with ease as a generalist… and then watching referrals come to a complete halt.
What followed was a process of refining her niche, rebuilding her messaging, and learning how to connect with clients in a way that actually works in today’s market.
This episode is an honest look at what it takes to grow a sustainable, premium-fee practice now—and why specificity, honesty, and connection matter more than ever.
Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:
1️⃣ Why being a generalist stopped working—and what changed in the therapy industry after 2020
2️⃣ How getting specific in your niche leads to more aligned, longer-term clients
3️⃣ What private pay clients are really looking for (and why connection matters more than credentials)
4️⃣ How to build referral relationships that feel genuine and lead to “stickier” clients
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Hey, hey. Welcome to a really special episode of marketing Therapy. In this conversation, I sit down with Taylor Williams, who has really been through it. She has seen what it was like to start a practice in the boom of a pandemic, and then to experience all of the shifts and changes that have happened since 2020.
She sits on the other side of these post pandemic times with a lot of really cool insight into what it means to be successful as a premium fee private pay clinician today. But also what happens when you lean into specificity and you really start calling in the clients that you know you do your best work with.
Taylor went through our Confident Copy plus experience, which is something we open up twice per year as part of our Confident Copy Live program. But our birthday sale is coming up later this month with the self-study version of Confident Copy. So if you're someone who wants to go through this same process that you're hearing Taylor talk about, know that that's gonna be available to you at a really deep discount.
It's where we walk you through how to figure out your niche and then how to infuse it into your marketing. And then of course we also have design options available if you're wanting to pair it with one of our templates, our DIY brand kit, things like that. But if you're someone who. Has wondered what to do about all the changes you've seen in our industry.
If you're someone who's felt nervous about the idea of claiming a niche and uncertain about how to actually figure out what the heck that actually is, you're gonna get so much out of this conversation with Taylor, not to mention some really practical insights about why clients, especially private pay ones, are choosing the therapists that they are right now.
Like I said, this is an amazing conversation. Enough for me. Let's get into it.
Taylor, welcome to Marketing Therapy. I'm so happy you're here and so honored you were willing to, to sit down with me. Start by just introducing yourself for those who may not know you.
Who are you, what do you do, and where are you based?
All right, Anna. Thanks for having me. It's good to be back. I was. We were talking pre-roll that I miss working with you and your team. I am a confident Copy plus graduate and very glad to be. I've been in private practice for five years. I am all virtual and I am based in Arizona, but I'm licensed in California, Arizona, and Florida.
Awesome, awesome. And you were just getting started before we kind of pressed record. Me about sort of how you found us and and confident copy and that kind of thing. And that's gonna be a lot of this discussion is just learning more about your journey. But tell me, how did you come across the work that we do?
Yeah, so I came across you all in on Facebook and I was in the free Facebook group for a while. And what happened is I noticed I got into the industry, the private practice field right after COVID and I noticed that it was a really great time to be a generalist. I was, it was really easy. I would get.
Multiple people reaching out. I could send a generic response template of just like, would you like to get started? And I'll, maybe we can do a 10 minute, you know, I was very much, you could go through the motions and have a lot of clients. Then I noticed post COVID like around maybe 20 22, 20 23, really, really started referrals slowed down, and then they eventually came to a halt for me.
So at this time, I was hybrid in person, virtual. I would've described myself as a generalist. I frankly was thinking that. I was starting to hear whisperings of it's, you got a niche, you gotta find your niche. And at the time, full transparency, I thought, oh, that's kind of like a, that feels like a buzzword. I don't wanna exclude any clients who would reach out. And then my referrals halted. My private practice essentially stopped earning revenue. It was horrifying. And I just felt I had nothing to lose. And I really saw in watching your program, from the sidelines, it really seemed like you had a plan and it wasn't just a, let me get you on my email list and I'll email blast you once a day with things that aren't that helpful.
Like I had really kind of put feelers out. I was like, I've gotta admit that this isn't working. But it just really seemed from what I could observe. That you had a plan, you executed on the plan, and then I would see people post their websites after working with you. And it was just, they were so, likable online.
These therapists, like not in, they felt so genuine. They, I felt like I knew them and there was a way that their voice was communicated with a business mindset, but I didn't feel like they were selling things to me, and it just felt like they were specific and personal. So I. Decided to jump in. I was between Confident Copy and Confident Copy Plus, and I am so glad I went for Confident Copy Plus because that really helped me identify in a niche and even I would argue a micro niche at this point to go along with that.
And I didn't realize how much. Professional soul searching I had to do. I thought I had it kind of figured out, but I now realize I didn't.
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about that. Someone going from the world of a generalist to deciding, okay, you know, I'll be darn i'll, I'll go ahead and get a niche. Right. What was that process like for you? What was the kind of discovery process required? 'cause you have landed on a very specific niche now.
What was that discovery process like for you?
Yeah, so my niche now, I would describe my niche statement as I am a Christian EMDR therapist who heals narcissistic abuse. And it's wildly different than I ever thought I would say. But I love it. And then micro niche I'm currently exploring is adult children of narcissistic parents.
The process was much more personal than I ever would've thought. Which is wonderful because now when I work with clients, I truly enjoy it. I can feel that it's filling my cup and theirs, and of course I'm there in professional service to them, but I just can't help but be really extra excited about the work.
So I would say in exploring a niche be, I would, if I could go back and give myself advice, I would say surrender what you think you've got. I would've said, I. I would've said I liked working with adults who were. Motivated. I, it was very loose. I just, I was afraid to be specific. I would also tell myself that don't be afraid to be specific.
Don't be afraid for it to maybe even include parts of what you've overcome yourself, so specific and personal. And I really didn't do anything extra except follow the steps in your program. And it was more than enough. And here I am and I'm
Yeah. So what was that process of kind of uncovering that, that angle you have the Christian EMDR therapist, you have the narcissistic abuse. How did you go from motivated adults to that? Where, how did, how did those things come up and how did you end up really leaning into them?
It really started, I think, in your program you encouraged us to just, uh, identify clients we've worked with, who we just really felt like it was our, our most powerful work, the work we cared the most about, we're most passionate about. So without disclosing anything confidential, I I, I just sort of identified.
Maybe five clients where it's like, man, every session just felt so meaningful that we both got so much out of it. If I could have a caseload of clients like that, that's the dream. And then it was just identifying what's the thread? I. So it started as kind of that red thread you coached us on, which I identified was I really love transforming pain into purpose.
And that was the common theme. These clients came in, they were in a lot of emotional pain. And they felt like there was no hope for them, no plan for them. And then what I later discovered was that was because there was some sort of history of narcissistic abuse, whether by a parent, a romantic partner a religious leader.
And so the component where I started to think maybe this is I have a passion for helping heal religious abuse. That was sort of before I identified the narcissism component. And then that brought me to the question of, well, do I be honest about my personal faith or do I risk excluding clients?
And that was where I was encouraged by your program. Be specific. You'll actually find yourself with a fuller caseload. By doing what feels like you're going to exclude clients. So I had to be really clear in my soul searching that, you know, I don't wanna consider myself a biblical counselor, a Christian counselor.
It's different. It's my personal faith is Christianity. My modality is EMDR. And then I thought, that's so clunky. That's so specific. Again, I was encouraged to be specific and then I saw, well, you know what? Maybe I'm being too specific in it just being religious abuse. That is an area where if I zoom out, it really was a narcissistic person who was mistreating these people through faith, using religion, using romance, whatever it might have been.
So. Yes, there was room in the program to zoom in and zoom out with the lens. But again, I was encouraged to be really specific and that would really be, and then once that was all kind of ironed out, then we were able to talk about how to just put that into words to
Yeah. Yeah, I've, I've made a joke here on marketing therapy recently about the number of times I've used the word specificity because is your greatest asset right now. In this market in particular, and even in the age of ai, I think there's more opportunity there's ever been to be specific.
And so I love hearing that that was so transformational for you. So you figure out your niche. And obviously as part of Confident Copy plus you and I got to spend one-on-one time together, so I remember lots of these conversations,
Yes. Yeah.was really wonderful. What, what did you find was difficult or maybe just what, what was unexpected as you nailed that niche and then decided how that was actually gonna come to life in your words?
Yeah, I really struggled with my own fears that I, for somehow this wouldn't work for me. And it was through no fault of you or your program. I just didn't realize how much personal doubt I was dealing with, especially after going from what felt like a really robust, successful private practice post COVID to one where referrals had essentially halted.
I had a lot of fear, so it was, I struggled with trusting the process. I wish I had relaxed more. I, I knew and I believed that something meaningful would come from it, but I had that doubt that just kind of got in the way and made it to where I had to take breaks more often. I wish I had just put that aside and fully, fully, fully trusted the process because on the other side of it.
It was meaningful. It was the best investment I've made for my private practice. So yeah, that would, inner doubt, the inner critic voice was got really loud
Yeah, it's something I hear from a lot of confident copy students about the, like, self work that is required. Like they think they're signing up to write their website copy or figure out their niche, and it turns out it's like this whole self discovery. So mentioned that that was part of it for you too.
What was, you know, surprising about your own growth as you look back on what you accomplished in Confident Copy.
I am surprised at how convicted I was to be clear about my own faith. I. I'm seeing this also online and in the Facebook groups and I see people post questions and in other forums like, do I be honest about my faith, political beliefs, things like that. Like what? How transparent is too transparent. I believe I felt really convicted 'cause I was ready to be really honest with myself and with my clients.
I would say the way the industry has changed is people are so hungry for honesty and integrity. So where I thought I was being afraid that I was being too specific, what I was actually doing is preparing myself to be very honest with clients.
And in that honesty, that's what it's taking is integrity, professionalism, transparency, honesty. You have to be at that level. It's a higher caliber that is required where I got to be the, uh, the generalist who didn't really talk about the difficult things and therefore clients didn't ask me. That was enough then.
But now what sets you apart from other therapists is. Are you real? Do you care? Do you mean what you say? So that's been my surprise with the industry. And during the, the whole process with the prompts that you gave us, I just felt so convicted to be honest about what was important to me as a human being while developing myself professionally.
Wow. That is powerful insight that in this industry, that's what people are hungry for. And I think you're absolutely right in in all industries, but particularly in therapy, in especially in the age of ai, right? We want someone that is clearly obviously human. And human you can show up to your marketing as, and your practice as of course, within all of your ethical boundaries and things like that, the likely you are to actually deeply connect with people.
Absolutely, and it's, it shapes how I conduct myself. Again, still professionally. But I would say what I do different now after learning that surprising fact through the process is I now respond instead of that generic email template to people who reach out through Psychology Today or my website, I actually just go straight to calling and leaving a voicemail if they've provided their.
Phone number. the way I ha have it structured is that when you reach out, you're giving your phone number if it's safe to receive a message. So I'm able to be clear about that. And so I'll leave a message. I'll use their name. I, once I've been given that permission b based on how they reached out, if they've given it to me, I leave, I, I speak to their name, I speak to what they're, they're hungry for to work on.
I talk about. Again, a free consultation, but really just to be human. And I have found that that's much, much more successful than the generic email templates I used to send out before. 'cause again, the hunger for humanness, honesty, integrity, I would say clients seem to be almost hungrier for that than they are for credentials.
I and even you know. Licenses, trainings. I've never had anyone ask me what specialty trainings or certifications I have as a client. But I've, I get often asked things about faith hard questions like that. again, I'll answer if it's clinically relevant, if they're asking for a clinically relevant reason.
You know, we're always keeping it therapy focused, but they're much more interested in your humanness and your honesty than anything.
Interesting. That's powerful insight. Like truly boots on the ground that, that you're getting here. Really, really cool. So as part of Confident Copy plus, we of course also got to design your website.
And your website remains one of my favorites we've ever done. It'll be linked in the show notes so can look at it, but we got to
the niche work that you did, the self-discovery, the great copy you, you wrote in Confident Copy, and then a really like premium level, like we, you, you upleveled big time with that design, so.
You finished that? We launched the website. What'd you do next? I didn't get to talk to you right away. So what actions did you take post-launch and what have you, what were you up to in the handful of months after.
There was a lot of being patient because I believe I launched right, right before the, the big new year bump that we always see in the industry where people are ready to work on themselves. So it was just the first thing I had to really remind myself again, that inner critic voice kind of came back online.
Like, what if it didn't really work, even though. It felt so meaningful. So I had to be patient. 'cause what I got tempted to do was go back to my generalist ways and find ways to not exclude, not, and, you know, offer appointments outside of my desired timeframe. Try to reach out and address populations that weren't my ideal client.
Niche. So I had to really check myself like, don't go back to your old ways. You've committed to this process. And then I started seeing just organically without any further effort, referrals, reaching out, turning into bookings, turning into clients, so number one, it was be patient and trust the launch process.
And then beyond that I did a lot of connecting with other professionals. I love that you taught us about niche adjacent professionals. I used to think incorrectly that, well, if I'm connecting with other therapists to network. They're gonna think I'm trying to take their clients. I, I was, I had such a misunderstanding of what that actually is.
And what I found is that I'm often looking for family therapists and couples counselors, because that's not my modality that I do, and they're often looking for someone who can work one-on-one to help somebody heal. From narcissistic abuse. So it could be that couple where one individual perhaps is struggling in the process more than the other because of their parent who was so emotionally abusive.
Or it could be in the, the family. The dynamic is thrown off because someone is dating a person with narcissistic tendencies. So I didn't realize the power of niche adjacent. I, it does not come off as. As threatening or trying to poach clients. I've done a lot of virtual coffee zooms with n adjacent therapists and exchanged referrals.
And then there are you know, I, I still, still reach out to psychiatrists and work to connect with them 'cause they're often looking for me. I'm looking for them. So really any therapist, I just kind of racked my brain. When have I been with a client and thought that's a mental health professional. I would love to get them or a family member connected with, and I reach out to those people. And so that really was a fun, and I enjoyed the process. It's really fun to connect with other professionals. There was a lot of validating that, yeah, the industry's changed, referrals come slower, but they are so much stickier is the term I would like to use. Whereas I to have people do like.
Four weeks and then be like, Hmm, just kind of ghost me and not respond back because they weren't as engaged in the process. So I'm noticing that if you trust the process, you're networking with other professionals, you're, you're doing as much due diligence as you can. I didn't kill myself with marketing and connecting, but I did the best I could.
That when you do book that client for their first session, you're likely going to be with them until they graduate in if you do it this way. I love that that itself is more meaningful and more lucrative at the same time.
Absolutely. Yeah. The ROI on your time is, is a lot better there and I think that is the power of, of just why we continue to see networking be so important right now is because of that stickiness that you're talking about. I refer to it as a trust transfer, like if I trust my psychiatrist and then they recommend me to tailor.
Then I automatically trust Taylor a little bit 'cause I trust my psychiatrist. Right. And that's the really cool thing about person to person referrals that we can't manufacture with any other strategy. And, and that's why that can be just so powerful and why those clients are likely sticking around with you.
there any other, like regular part of your marketing rhythm besides staying in touch with people and, and really building relationship?
Yes, which is one that surprised me. I. Thought that I really wouldn't have a need for physical paper marketing material. But the one bit of material I still use are business cards, and I actually put my red thread statement on the back of my business card. So the back says, transforming pain into purpose.
And I found that if I actually. Leave them places where my ideal client might be getting coffee or spending time. I'll just leave a small stack. If I leave them red thread side up, I actually find that they're much more inviting to a client. People are very curious. They pick it up. They turn it over, they they call.
So it was interesting in flipping over my business, well, having a backside after going through Confident Copy Plus 'cause I didn't know what a Red Thread statement was. I didn't know the reason the, the backbone of, of why I love this work and why clients need this work until I went through Confident Copy plus that's now on the back of my business cards.
And then flipping them backwards has actually engaged with potential more. So that's the only other bit of market.
Yes, exactly. That's actually the other bit that I do is just have physical business cards upside down or opposite side up.
I love that. I love that. So tell us, how are things going in your practice today? Taylor, you are able to take a leave and where are you finding yourself now?
Yeah, so I ended up taking a maternity leave and then coming, I really felt like I found my stride before my maternity leave, which was so exciting because I found myself really excited to go back to work again knowing that ideal clients are out there. And I noticed that once I. Turned marketing back on.
I changed psychology today to accepting clients. My website now no longer says wait list that once you turn the tap back on, the same principles apply. I'm having, I, I would say still not the same number of referrals weekly as. Early post COVID. Again, the industry remains changed, but those who do reach out are all requesting information on healing from narcissistic abuse.
They're all very niche focused. They're intrigued that I'm honest about that. I take a biblical world view on my website. And so I've started, I've now booked after being back. I think I told you I've only been back about three weeks and I had zero clients. Everyone had graduated or been referred out.
I've now booked two new ideal clients in three weeks, which feels. Faster than I would've expected. So again, I'm just going to be patient, trust the process, do what I wish I had done earlier for my own peace of mind and know that when you turn the tap back on the same marketing is just as effective.
And so been really exciting to see. So I'm just slowly easing back in. But really again, just strongly resisting the urge to drift back to being a generalist who's willing to maybe. Take insurance or work on weekends or late evenings, things where I professionally decided that I don't wanna go that direction anymore.
And it's, it's slowly but surely the same thing is happening is when I first launched my website with you all.
Cool. That's really cool to hear. I so appreciate hearing from someone who's been on kind of this full spectrum journey from. COVID times because starting a practice during COVID was the time to start a practice. Like if you were gonna do it, that that was it. Right? It was a beautiful time to help people with marketing because they got results so easily.
And it's, the reality has changed. And not to say that success isn't still possible. Obviously you're a great of that, but our expectations around it, the need for patience, the, the mindset work required to stay committed, that's new. Right. And I think you're a example of what happens when you.
You resist that urge, right? And you stay in line and you stay committed. You stay patient. The results they do come.
Thank you. Yes. If I could speak to anyone out there listening, I would say that I, I don't pretend to have it all figured out. I learned a ton working with you in Confident Coffee. Plus I learned a lot about myself, which was. Again, surprising and wonderful.
But it's a different industry. It's things do move slower. But again, know that that one client you book who just feels so connected, like your website was speaking to them, and they truly trust and believe in what you're doing with them, that is not only so, so much more meaningful. It's more lucrative again, because they're consistent.
They're showing up. They're not late canceling or stopping engaging in treatment ghosting you. So I've had to remind myself where it used to be four people reaching out a week, and I'd maybe book a new client every two weeks. It's slower, but it is still possible for it to be really lucrative. It, it does feel a little like feast or famine again because one client booking with you now means so much more than it used to.
So that client graduating I I often. Just kind of giggled to myself, like, I'm so excited you're healed. I'm horrified that now this client has graduated. You have to just, it's taking emotional discipline, I'm finding, and don't let my excitement about how successful this process was make it seem like you don't have it figured out.
No, it's a harder industry, but it's so much more meaningful for. Every one client you book who believes in what you're doing
Yeah, and I'm wonder if you, if as we sort of wrap up, if you could speak to. How you feel as a clinician getting to have a caseload of those people that feel super, super aligned versus anyone and everyone that you could serve. What has that meant for you personally or professionally as a therapist?
It's sort of permeated into other aspects of my life because I'm no longer burning myself out, so. I found that I'm excited for these sessions and when I log off, I feel again, still I don't feel depleted, so I'm noticing that I'm more motivated to even like day-to-day things like. Exercise cook healthy meals, whereas I'd normally just wanna go through a drive-through 'cause I was burning myself out.
I'm finding that I'm more disciplined with my finances. I've been motivated to do my own research on, how to minimize overhead, maximize profit. I'm excited to market and reach out to other professionals. I'm just not depleted and so it surprised me. So that would be the other area I'd say.
Don't lose heart because yes, I have a caseload of, as of right now, two, that's low. That is frightening. But again, what comes up is I'm so, so filled up by the work that I do and I know that other clients are coming because I've seen it work before, after launching with you all. That. It's working 'cause I'm disciplined in other areas of my life, financially and with self-care.
So it works, but it works so much different than when I first started, which was get as many clients as you can treat, whatever. And if there's a little bit of energy to take care of yourself, at the end of the day, fine. But who cares? You're, you're, you have a big caseload. It was counterintuitive. I now realize.
Yeah. By serving clients that are better fit for yourself, you're creating more margin for every area of who you are as a person, both as a therapist, but also as every, every other role you have in your life.
yes. I'm showing up better for my husband. I am showing up better for friends. I'm just more myself, which so good because I'm beautiful place to be. Yeah. what I believe in, or again, just burning out And, and the clients, when they show up, they believe and they're ready and they're engaged. They're so much more engaged in the process when you niche and when you're just an honest human being.
Yeah. Yeah. And I just have to point out in you, Taylor, the self-trust that I hear that like, yes, you're returning from maternity leave, you're three weeks, you know, returned. So it's, this is a such an early time and you have two clients and instead of that, uh. Meaning something and Right, you can have feelings about it, but instead of meaning, you're actually choosing to believe I know what I'm doing.
I know what I do well, I know I can return to things that have worked before, like you're in the driver's seat of your business and that we can't put a, you know, a price tag on. That's powerful.
It's, it's such a good feeling and again, it's why I just say that. Confident Copy plus is the best investment I've, I've made. I would say more than dual licensure, more than becoming EMDR certified. I've seen it just really transform how I work, the quality of work I provide for clients and just the quality of life that I live.
It, it, it really, I know that sounds maybe dramatic, but I sincerely mean what I say it. It's worth it. I, I sat on the sideline because of fear of the price tag or wondering, is this just another marketing program that isn't gonna really deliver and I'm really just gonna be stuck on an email list again.
It, it is so much more. So I will, I'm not gonna discount the quality of program you offer. That was essential. But it's worth it. I'm still feeling like it was worth it. A year and a half later. I think it's been since launch and. I would do it again if I was back in time and I would just have probably waited less time, if I'm being honest.
I wish I'd done it sooner,
Oh, well Taylor, that means so much to me and I don't, I mean, I don't take that feedback lightly. To, to be part of people's ability to be well and do good work is, uh, absolutely an honor and I, I appreciate that more than you know. So thank you so much for joining us today. We are wishing you well post leave as you you know, grow that caseload back up to, to where you want it to be.
But thanks, thanks again for being here.
Oh, I appreciate you and yes, I do mean it and I do miss working with you. I'll be in the free Facebook group for life just
Yeah, please, please do.
seeing what everyone's working on. And yeah, just thank you for today. Thank you for. The entire process. You make it enjoyable. That would be the last thing I wanna add, is you, do you and your team make it enjoyable?
'Cause it, it is a lot of work, but you just kept it so light and so exciting and so dynamic. So thank you for also just making it a joy to do. And again, it's a quality program. I wish I had done it sooner, but it's good to be today.
my absolute pleasure. Thanks again, Taylor.
You're welcome. Have a good day.
See what I mean? Wasn't that an inspiring conversation to hear from someone who is boots on the ground experiencing the evolution that so many clinicians have lived through from COVID to now? Taylor is such a wonderful picture of what it takes to be successful today, but also what happens when you stay committed to this process, when you get really, really real about the work that you do best.
When you are, as she said, honest about it, you attract people that value it. You attract people that are sticky and you get to do work that fills you up and at the end of the day, isn't that why you got into this line of work to begin with? So I hope you're leaving this interview feeling inspired and empowered.
Like I said, if you are interested in the framework, that Taylor talked about here. Confident copy in its self-study version is available for up to 30% off as part of our birthday sale later on this month.
You can find all the details for that walkerstrategyco.com/bs26. But whatever you do next, I hope you take some learnings from this one into your own practice and that you also can be well in every area of your life and business. Have a good one. See you next week.
Okay.
Resources & Links Mentioned:
The Birthday Sale: https://walkerstrategyco.com/bs26
Confident Copy: https://walkerstrategyco.com/cc
DIY Brand Kit (DBK): https://walkerstrategyco.com/dbk
Taylor’s website: https://www.trinitytraumatherapy.com
Get Booked Out Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/getbookedout
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Marketing Therapy is the podcast where therapists learn how to market their private practices without burnout, self-doubt, or sleazy tactics. Hosted by Anna Walker—marketing coach, strategist, and founder of Walker Strategy Co—each episode brings you clear, grounded advice to help you attract the right-fit, full-fee clients and grow a practice you feel proud of.
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